posted October 27, 2000 05:55 AM               

(2) Hogs become aggressive in tight spaces and often bite each other's
tails, which has caused many farmers to cut the tails off.

(3) Concrete or slatted floors allow for easy removal of manure, but
because they are unnatural surfaces for pigs, the animals often suffer
skeletal deformities.

(4) Ammonia and other gases from manure irritate animals' lungs, to the
point where over 80% of US pigs have pneumonia upon slaughter.

(5) Due to genetic manipulation, 90% of broiler chickens have trouble
walking.

Sources:
1) Horrigan, Leo, Lawrence, Robert S., Walker, Polly, "How Sustainable
Agriculture Can Address the Environmental and Human Health Harms of
Industrial Agriculture," Johns Hopkins University's Center for a Livable
Future, July 9, 1999
(2) ibid. [Spart's Note: What is "ibid"? I have no idea.]
(3) ibid.
(4) ibid.
(5) Erik Marcus, Vegan, Mcbooks, 1998

MISCELLANEOUS
Facts:
(1) The average American consumes nearly twice his or her weight in meat
annually.

(2) Poultry processing has almost double the injury and illness rate than
trades like coal mining and construction.

(3) The United Nations reports that all 17 of the world's major fishing
areas are at or beyond their natural limits. One third of all the world's
fish catch is fed directly to livestock.

(4) "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival on
earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
--- Albert Einstein

(5) "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the
way its animals are treated. I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the
more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man."
--- Mohandas Ghandi

(6) Sixty million people will starve to death this year - sixty million people could be adequately fed by the grain saved if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 percent.

(7) In the egg industry, male chicks are considered useless so are often thrown into a grinding machine . . . ALIVE!

(8) About seven billion farm animals die or are slaughtered each year in the U.S. for the production of flesh food.

(9) There are virtually no laws against cruelty to animals raised for food in the U.S. The Animal Welfare Act, which governs the humane treatment of animals, excludes animals intended for food consumption.

(10) Many animals are transported to slaughter without food and water for a long time. Millions die on the way to slaughter.

(11) Cows that are injured or become sick during transport to the stockyards or slaughterhouse often become unable to stand. They are referred to as "downers." They are often pushed around with bulldozers into piles and are left to die a horrific death.

(12) Diet now followed by the original actor who played Ronald McDonald in McDonald's child-oriented commercials: Vegetarian.

(13) Spinach grown on an acre of land can yield 26 times more protein than beef produced on the same acre. Eat your Spinach, you blasted Imperials!

(14) Rarc Spartacus learns ten times more from one hour of watching CNN than he does with ten hours devoted reading to The Anchorage Daily News.

Sources:
(1) Earth Times, July 1, 1998.
(2) EarthSave, March 1998.
(3) EarthSave, November 1997.
(4) Quotation.
(5) Quotation.
(6) CNN website.
(7) CNN website.
(8) NBCi website.
(9) Reuters News Service.
(10) Second article has no source listed.
(11) Second article has no source listed.
(12) Second article has no source listed.
(13) Second article has no source listed.
(14) Random knowledge of Rarc Spartacus.

Having posted this, I plan to go down to Tony Romas and have a nice big platter of ribs. Mmmmm.

posted October 29, 2000 10:21 PM               

------------------
"Being Canadian is just like being next to a sleeping elephant."

posted October 30, 2000 01:13 AM               

Secondly, I posted the prior articles on the Lounge ComNet because they contained documented facts that, in my opinion, were rather interesting. I proved correct in this assessment while observing several conversations that occured in #Vast_Empire on the subject of my posts. My personal motivation to display these articles is, in no way, meant to provoke an argument or intended to mock/ridicule/degrade/attack farmers, but *merely* to provide interesting reading for my fellow Lounge ComNet viewers. Before these articles on farming, I posted moderately humorous articles on President Bill Clinton.

Thirdly, I openly admit the articles I posted were a tad grotesque, but I balance my unsightly posts with those displaying pictures of Gene Tierney.

Fourthly, since you feel my knowledge of farming or ranching to be in question, I openly state that I was partially raised on a farm in Kansas, as well as one in New Enlgand (created in the 1600s), and a cattle ranch in Texas (which was at one time was the second-largest in the United States: the H.D. Miller Ranch). I also descend from two seperate genetic lines which were farmers and still are. Therefore, I have no reason whatsoever to mock a profession which a large portion of my relatives practice.

Fifthly, I state again my post was not intended to offend anyone. If you deemed them offensive, I apologize and advise you not to read any other posts I submit on the Lounge ComNet in the near future.

Finally, I find your indecorous tirades in reaction to my posts to be far from polite and remind you that this *is* the Lounge ComNet. All posts are deemed acceptable regardless of your approval unless they contain blatant pornographic material, conspicious racism, or exceedingly foul language.

posted October 30, 2000 07:25 PM               

------------------
"Being Canadian is just like being next to a sleeping elephant."

posted October 30, 2000 08:47 PM               

I would also like to apologize for my reaction. i may have taken it a bit far. HOWEVER, i don't consider "random knowledge of [anybody]" a good source for one thing...

Again, i am sorry for my over-reaction, but i'm under a bit of stress w/ irl stuff. Between football playoffs, work, broken bones, etc., i'm really really stressed. the only thing that has saved me is that extra hour of sleep that i got this weekend...

posted October 30, 2000 08:59 PM               

And you know what? These guys actually get government subsidies, so they can continue overproducing, so they can continue making less money, so the government can continue paying them.

Can you imagine if Dr Martens' went to the government and said "Hey, we got greedy and wanted to make some more money, so we made so many shoes that no-one will pay more than �10 for a pair. Want to give me some cash?"

posted October 30, 2000 09:52 PM               

Now here's the catch. Agribusiness is bad. It kills centuries-old family industries. It is a big, uncaring machine. It does not produce near as many jobs as it replaces. It is very anti-environmental and poisons everything it touches - literally.

But the price of many crops, particularly corn, has stayed steady (once you factor in inflation) since the 1930s. Imagine this: a farmer selling corn earns as much in real dollars as his father or grandfather earned per bushel in, say, 1934. Not a lot of profit to be made there.

Going to other crops hasn't helped. Soybeans are still not universally accepted in the US. Wheat is about all you can grow in some areas. No wonder farms go bankrupt every year.

Now you can through numbers around all you want - $8000 or $80,000. Picture this. No health care, no disability insurance, no guaranteed wages, if a machine breaks you do not go to the motor pool or ask the boss, you pay somewhere in the area of $250,000 for a combine.

Basically, no matter where you fall in this argument, at least agree that farming is a miserably hard job with few rewards as most of modern society sees it. I have done some farm labor growing up, but I won't kid myself. There is no way I would be a farmer in this day and age. Few people would be so capable.

posted October 30, 2000 10:39 PM               

Think about it. Car prices multiply faster than freakin' rabbits and corn prices stay the same...hmm...crazy. My Trig teacher went through college for litterally 100 dollars/year because he got half paid for him. HA! now THAT'S bad... He's the same teacher that drives a brand-new pickup (like 30 grand) because he does real-estate stuff in the summer! now THAT'S what i would do if I were a teacher...

Anyway, back to farming... It's not family farmers that keep crop prices down. it's the Huge corporations that force prices down, and therefore force ppl to produce more to make the same amount of money, causing prices to get no better. And if you think that Government money going to farmers is bad, well, if people that are unemployed get money to live then so should the hardest-workers in the country that was BUILT on hard work! C'mon, people! If you seriously look at it, should our government be shelling out money to those who don't work (excluding those who CAN'T work. that's a differnt story)? Would you want to work if you got money for NOT WORKING?!? "teach a man to fish..." you all know the phrase.

my finger hurts and looks worse than it hurts... /me remembers telling Talon something about his finger looking like 2 grapes got wedged between the knuckle...your happy thought for today, eh, Talon?

posted October 31, 2000 07:29 PM               

As for farming being tough . . . big deal. Writing is tough. Being an archaeologist is tough. Being a postman is touch (well maybe not).

Some farmer doesn't like it - he should quit. The result? Less farmers, less food, higher prices, more happy farmers.

Simple.

posted November 01, 2000 11:21 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schnapps:
as I only intend to live in America in a self-aware, ironic way, I couldn't care less who your government

---

This?

posted November 01, 2000 03:57 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schnapps:
Being a postman is touch (well maybe not).

---

posted November 01, 2000 05:27 PM               

Anyway, no. My few experiments with that show were a massive disappointment and putting in that weasel Lovitts didn't help matters at all.

posted November 01, 2000 07:13 PM               

Strangely enough, Troy McClure was one of my favorite Simpson's characters, and Bill McNeal is definately my favorite Newsradio character (and not just because he is me, either :P). I only connected that the Simpsons actor who got shot was also in Newsradio a few weeks ago . . . but I digress.

Anyway, in one episode of Newsradio, Beth discovered through slightly covert means that Dave Nelson was, in fact, Canadian. The following chain of events involved accusations of him being a Canadian spy, among other things Anyway, when people heard he was Canadian, they replied "What do you mean, Canadian? He's a Real American, from the Midwest, where the Real Americans live."